"It was appalling to try to kill somebody"

On February 6, Justice Minister Alberto Ruiz-Gallardón announced that ETA prisoners held in jails throughout Spain, some of them as far away as the Canary Islands, will remain where they are and will not be moved closer to their homes in the Basque Country. Interior Minister Jorge Fernández added the same day that ETA prisoners might be eligible for such privileges, although they would be assessed on a case-by-case basis, and must first publicly reject violence and ask their victims or their families for forgiveness. The Basque radical left refuses to consider this, as do the overwhelming majority of the 500 or so ETA prisoners in Spanish jails, still believing that they will not be required to question the use of violence in the past in pursuit of the goal of Basque independence.

But around 20 ETA activists who were being held in the Nanclares de Oca jail in Álava have been transferred to three prisons closer to their homes in the Basque Country, a process which started under the previous Socialist Party administration. This is because they have been prepared to undergo a process that included criticizing ETA's policy of bombings and shootings - while also looking at the excesses committed by successive Spanish governments over the last 40 years.

They may be a minority, but they say that they want their voice heard in the ongoing talks to reach a permanent, and peaceful, settlement in the Basque Country.

Around a dozen of the group, among them three of ETA's best-known activists, Joseba Urrusolo Sistiaga, Rafael Caride, and Idoia López Riaño, took part in a workshop in Nanclares with victims, academics, politicians, and journalists to discuss the violence in the Basque Country over the last four decades, along with its victims, and the hopes for a lasting peace. The prisoners themselves had asked for the chance to discuss the issues, a request agreed by the former head of the prison system, Mercedes Gallizo, who brought in the Basque government's office for victims of violence.

A group of the prisoners, who now call themselves Prisoners Committed to an Irreversible Peace Process - most of whom have been in jail for more than a decade serving life terms for murder or belonging to an armed group - agreed to collectively answer a questionnaire put together by EL PAÍS.

Urrusolo Sistiaga, Caride, Carmen Gisasola, Kepa Pikabea, Andoni Alza and Ibon Etxezarreta spoke on behalf of the group, highlighting their need to talk about their experiences and what it has meant to them to meet their victims and their families. They told journalist Gorka Landaburu, who was injured in a terror attack, that they were glad he had survived and that "it was an appalling thing" to try to kill him.

Question. How are the workshops organized?

Answer. They are discussions about how to find a way to live together based on looking at what happened in the past, about how to heal wounds at a personal and collective level, and what we can do to contribute to this.

Q. Why did you want to take part in them?

A. The organization that we belonged to has been responsible for a large part of the suffering many families have undergone over the years. Accepting that responsibility, we understood that it was necessary to build bridges and to create meeting points that would contribute to healing wounds, as well as contributing to the peace process and preventing such terrible situations from ever occurring again. We believed that it was essential to talk to a wide range of people, and hopefully break this silence that has existed in our country for so many years.

Q. What have you talked about?

A. About what still needs to be done so that we can return to some kind of normality. We have looked at the peace and reconciliation processes that have taken place in other countries; discussed the ethical bases upon which societies affected by violence have built a new future; and we have looked at the reality of the lives of the victims, from their perspective.

Q. What was it like to finally meet victims of terrorism?

A. We met three people, and it was very emotional. But at the same time it was a constructive and positive experience. For us it was very important that they agreed to come to the workshops. We were able to hear them talk about their fears and their doubts that we would all be able to move on and leave the past behind: it isn't possible just to turn the page and pretend that nothing happened. We understand that. We believe that the new era our country is entering with the end of ETA should be based on the recognition on the part of the whole of Basque society that so many people suffered for so many years.

Q. How did it feel to have those people so physically close to you?

A. In the first meeting we met the children of two people who had been killed in attacks. To be in the same room as these people, for them to be with a group of prisoners, to hear their stories; to hear not only how they suffered the loss of their parents, but to know that those around them offered no support - and worse, that they were rejected by their communities, adding to their pain - made us question not only the point of violence but the mentality that it engenders in people.

Q. And the second meeting?

A. This was with somebody who himself had been badly injured in an ETA attack, Gorka Landaburu, who was disfigured for life. You feel that you are happy that somebody is still alive, that it was an appalling thing to try to kill somebody. You really believe that, and you are emotionally affected, and you shake hands. You can't repair the damage you have caused; you can't go back. But at a human level you feel as though you are doing what you can. That is what you feel.

Q. Have the workshops set off any discussions among yourselves?

A. Of course. We have continued to look at the issues that have come up and that we have discussed, and how to move forward - how to take concrete measures, and how to understand the past beyond the purely personal dimension.

Q. What conclusions have you reached?

A. The important thing is to continue with these kinds of meetings because it is only through direct contact that one can really face up to what has happened and what one has done. In our country, we have come to live in stagnant worlds as a result of the violence; worlds full of prejudice and pre-established ideas about the "other." The end of violence means, among other things, changing the way that we think. We believe that meetings like these, at a community level, will have a positive impact and help us move forward.

Q. What can these workshops really do to help people overcome the past and live together?

A. They have an impact on the real world. They force us to go beyond declarations and statements and be part of the real world. We want to share our experiences and testimonies because we believe that by thinking about what we have done and the decisions that we took we can help others to question the thinking that allows political objectives to take precedence over the dignity of people.

Q. The majority of ETA prisoners are absolutely against any kind of self-criticism or reaching out to the victims of violence. Do you really think that what you are doing here can be extended to other prisons?

A. There are a great many other prisoners who would take part in these kinds of discussions if they were organized in the right way. It happened in Ireland; prisoners were allowed out to take part in activities to support the peace process. Before we began the workshops one of the first visits we had was from Rafa Larreina

[a moderate nationalist and now deputy in Congress for the Amaiur-EA coalition], who told us about his experiences when he met victims of violence. He made us see that it is possible to talk person to person. He understands the importance of the steps we are taking, and has encouraged us to talk to prisoners in other jails. The problem is that the issue of the prisoners is blocked by both sides. The nationalist left needs to start talking about it. We need to move forward on what to do about the prisoners.

Q. Many victims of ETA violence question your sincerity, seeing your actions as just a way to get out of jail. What would you say to that?

A. We understand their doubts and misgivings, but we would say that we have been questioning what we did in the past for many years now, and have been discussing this among ourselves, discussing all the aspects of what has happened. It has taken years, and has brought us a great many problems, as well as making life difficult for our families. It has been hard. We could have chosen simply to avoid the subject, and looked at other ways of reducing our sentences. This would have been what those who are controlling the other prisoners wanted us to do. But we didn't choose to do that because we believe that it is our moral duty to accept responsibility for what we have done. The men and women who have come to the workshops have been able to see this.