Jeff Tweedy: ‘It would be squandering the gift of making music to communicate cynicism, defeat. Fuck that shit. I’m not defeated’

Jeff Tweedy, 57, is the leader of Wilco, one of the most important American bands of the 21st century. A noted observer of the emotions of the individual either in contact or detached from his environment, Tweedy picks up the phone from his home in Chicago to talk about the collection of rare material and live recordings for the 20th anniversary edition boxset of A Ghost is Born, the album that consolidated them as the luminaries of the international indie scene.

Question. In a recent article in Uncut magazine, you claimed that A Ghost is Born is the best material Wilco ever recorded.

Answer. Did I say that? It doesn’t sound like me, I think. [laughs] I feel that way about everything. Certainly, when I put anything out, I feel that way.

Q. How important was creative freedom on the album?

A. We were definitely trying to discover some new way of making music for ourselves, not for anybody else. We were trying to push the boundaries of what we were capable of doing as a band and to grow. And I think we felt very inspired and excited about the progress we were making as a band.

Q. The guitars on the album pushed those boundaries.

A. I think that I was maybe a little bit frustrated lyrically trying to get my point across. And I think I started figuring out how to channel some of that frustration and confusion and maybe even, I don’t know, anger even at myself into my guitar playing. And it felt very cathartic to be able to express myself with the guitar.

Q. Did you go into the studio with some preconceived plan for this record?

A. I think I’m trying to make a connection and do something we hadn’t done before. Like I said before, just find some new territory to excite ourselves. Music is very important and the purpose for any record is to honor that power that music has, and be sincere in your efforts to connect to the listener and to everybody else, people that aren’t listening. Connect yourself to your soul and connect yourself to your humanity and your time period. It’s all very, very profound to me but at the same time it’s just some people getting together and making noise and calling it a record.

Q. Do you think the vibrant Chicago scene helped the band become more ambitious? Wilco shared the stage with many alternative indie bands, jazz improvisers and post-rock talents.

A. Oh, absolutely. I mean, starting with my wife’s club at the time, Lounge Axe, when I moved to Chicago, I had a place to be where I would see incredible music almost every night and meet a lot of musicians. And it was much more of a scene than where I had come from. And there were great and inspiring people to challenge us. I got to be friends with Jim O’Rourke and that really changed my life in a profound way. I don’t know, he definitely pushed me and he was also very supportive and encouraging and that meant a lot.

Q. As a teenager, you suffered from frequent panic attacks and also bouts of depression. All of this led you to become addicted to painkillers. How did all of this affect you during that time?

A. Well, I remember it pretty well surprisingly considering the psychic challenges I was having, the mental challenges. It wasn’t a great time but like most not great times in my life, music was the part that was nurturing and it was a great comfort to be able to play music with the guitar in my hands, focused on what we were doing. Those times back at the hotel room in between sessions and stuff like that were pretty rough times for me. But sadly that’s the case and that’s a big part of the memory of the record. The good news is that the music was still sustaining and I don’t have bad feelings about the music we made.

Q. There are fans and music critics who believe that Wilco reached its artistic peak with A Ghost is Born in 2004, especially after having just released Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. According to them, the following albums were never as ambitious. Does this view worry you?

A. I think anyone who says that should try to make a record like the ones we’ve been making. I think Wilco are extremely ambitious. In 2022 we released a double album, and in less than a year, another album. That’s a lot of songs. You have to be ambitious to do that. So, I don’t agree. A lot of people didn’t like A Ghost is Born when it came out. And here we are looking back on it 20 years later. I believed in it then and I believe in the stuff we’re making now. So we’ll see where we are in 20 years.

Q. The double album Cruel Country has a very sad vision of the United States.

A. Yeah, it’s hard not to be sad about the promise of America being squandered, being confronted with the reality of America versus the belief that I’ve grown up with in America. I still have hope for America. But beyond that, I have people, I have friends and family and community and things like that. I don’t need them to be a part of anything other than the world. So on one hand, I’ve studied and thought about America my whole life. And I’m curious about the notion of nationhood and the notion of patriotism and things like that, because they’re really alien to me.

But like I said before, the art that has been made in America and the self-liberation that comes from a lot of the art, especially the musical art forms of America, the radically individuated self-expression that has been kind of highlighted in American music, I think is basically the best version of America to share with the world. So I want to participate in that and keep creating in a way that hopefully allows other people to have some hope and some feeling of connection to something bigger than just America.

Q. Donald Trump has been re-elected. What is your opinion of the new U.S. administration?

A. I think we’re in a dark time. I think that we have made a terrible mistake as a country. I don’t know how it happened at the same time. It’s obvious that there are a lot of aggrieved people. There are a lot of very poorly informed people. But I think we may have elevated one of the least worthy people of all time to be our leader. And that’s going to cause consequences for not just us, for the rest of the world. And we’re going to have to figure out how to fix that situation. And it may take a long time..

Q. You speak of a dark time, but it also seems like a paranoid time.

A. I think there’s a lot of anxiety about the future everywhere I go, not just in America. I think that social media has turned into something that is extremely efficient at mind control. And kind of allowing people to put themselves in fearful little cages where they wake up every day and think about the things that they hate as opposed to the beautiful things that they have in front of them. It’s a very confusing time. Yeah, there’s paranoia, there’s retrograde fear.

Q. Has music lost relevance to be able to change situations like this?

A. Individually, music absolutely has the power to change and liberate. I think anybody that discovers music that they’re inspired by is presented with the concept of the world not having to be the way it is. And I think that there was a moment when recorded music and rock and roll was new, where it was really a driving force in the culture. I think music still is a driving force in the culture. And I think that it inevitably communicates something that I think people should believe in. It communicates cooperation, it communicates diversity, it communicates that ideas, beauty, dancing, joy are radical, revolutionary things. So yeah, I think music still has the power to change things. I wish there was more of a counterculture, not just in the United States, but maybe around the world, where music was driving a counterculture in a more powerful way. But I don’t think music has that role as much anymore. Sadly, I think it’s probably out there, but the signal isn’t very clear to me.

Q. Any albums that changed you and that you would recommend?

A. Sure. I could say countless albums. I don’t know, Meat Puppets II would be a good start for a lot of people.

Q. Are you optimistic about the future?

A. Absolutely. I mean, I’m able to dream and imagine and spend time with my creativity, and I think it would be a dismal thing to waste on cynicism. The gift that I’ve been given in my life to be able to spend my days making things and making art and putting it out into the world, I think if you’re free to do that, then you have a responsibility to believe in the future in a way that communicates some hope to other people. I think it would be a squandering of that gift to communicate cynicism, defeat. Fuck that shit. I’m not defeated. Nobody should feel defeated. People have endured really, really dark times. Humans are really, really good at adapting to the dark, and music is one of the ways that we’ve done that. So I will continue to be hopeful that that will keep working.

Q. And, at this point, what is Jeff Tweedy’s philosophy of life?

A. I don’t know. I’m just an advocate for people spending time creating and connecting themselves to the concept of creation and avoiding being attached to the concept of destruction. So, I think that that’s really my philosophy of life. If you’re killing time without hurting somebody, in my opinion, you’re doing it right.

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